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Showing posts with label Archives. Show all posts
Showing posts with label Archives. Show all posts
Wednesday, July 24, 2013
The James Tripp Blogs: From the Archives: 1984 Interview with Senator Gar...
The James Tripp Blogs: From the Archives: 1984 Interview with Senator Gar...: In the summer of 1984, I was a reporter for The Martha’s Vineyard Times and I interviewed Colorado Senator Gary Hart, who had almost beat V...
Tuesday, January 24, 2012
From the Archives: The Fenced Letter
When I was a reporter
for the Martha’s Vineyard Times
during the nineteen-eighties, one of
my beats was the town of Oak Bluffs, Massachusetts. A story I covered concerned
a private beach club, the East Chop Beach Club, suing the town over the
ownership of a bulkhead.
At the turn of the 20th
century, the body of water adjacent to the beach club was known as Squash Pond
and was probably fresh water. At that time, about 300 feet of beach land was
taken by eminent domain and a channel was dredged, creating a salt water
harbor. In the 1930’s the town built a bulkhead. In order to do this, Oak
Bluffs was granted an easement to give them access to build and maintain the
bulkhead. Members of the town and residents of Oak Bluffs both shared the use
of the bulkhead. In 1958, the beach club became a yacht club but kept the beach
club name. The town said that they maintained the bulkhead until 1978, when the
private club constructed a gate at the entrance to the bulkhead, limiting the
town’s access.
The town owned two acres of beachfront adjacent
to the club and you had to cross over club owned land to get to it. This
easement remained unobstructed and I would often use that stretch of beach as
it was close to where I lived. I would also jog through there during my morning
run. One dawn I noticed that the club had started to construct a second fence.
This one was on the beach separating their beach from the town beach. It was an
eyesore.
By this time, I had
quit the Martha’s Vineyard Times
twice, which is another story. I was working at a radio station, but this
didn’t seem like much of a radio story. It was more of a literary event. I
decided to write a letter to the editor and in addition to my former paper, I
also submitted it to the Martha's Vineyard
Gazette, which was established in 1846. The
Martha’s Vineyard Times was established right before I got there. That’s
another story.
I remember when I hand
delivered the letter to my old paper, the News Editor asked, “Is this an
exclusive? Are you just giving this to us?”
And a reporter who knew
me better than he did said, “No, he wants this to be read.”
She was right. I gave
the letter to both papers. As a matter of fact, I gave it to the Gazette first. They had an earlier
filing deadline.
So here’s the letter I
wrote. There’s a lot of metaphor. You
may be able to tell I had recently graduated from college with an English
degree. Some people liked this letter.
Some people did not. This is what it said:
August 12, 1985
To the Editor:
I was sitting on the
public beach in East Chop early one morning late last week, reading a book,
when Robert Frost suddenly said, “Something there is that doesn’t love a wall,
that sends the frozen-ground-swell under it and spills the upper boulders in
the sun, and makes gaps even two can pass abreast.” It was not an unusual thing
for the poet to say. He had said it before.
I looked up from the
book and noticed that someone had started to build a wooden fence to separate
the town owned beach from that portion claimed by the East Chop Beach Club.
Whoever the builder was must have done
it during the night or on a previous day, for there was no one at the half
completed structure to take responsibility for what was being done.
"The gaps I
mean," Frost said, "No one has seen them made or heard them made, but
at spring mending-time we find them there."
I stood up and walked
over to investigate the fence builder’s handiwork. I brought the book with me.
It was shaping up to be
a fine fence as fences go. The builder had gone to the trouble of pouring
concrete into the sand to anchor the wooden poles. Further down the line, there
were already other holes dug to pour more concrete in to anchor more poles to
complete the structure.
As I said before, it
was early. The beach was deserted. I looked over at the beach club building and
its structure seemed to say, “Good fences make good neighbors.” I think if
there had been a member there, I would have asked him to explain.
And Frost said,
"We do not need the wall: He is all pine and I am apple orchard. My apple
trees will never get across and eat the cones under his pines.”
Although I don’t always
agree with Frost, he was right this time. But I didn’t tell him because I would
never hear the end of it. I put the book down and ran into the water.
There, the beach club had no authority
to build a wall.
On Saturday I returned
to the beach with my book and the fence was almost complete. There was someone
in the employ of the beach club making a great deal of noise, banging wooden
boards onto the fence. The worker then proceeded to staple signs to the board
which read: "WARNING! NO TRESPASSING. THIS IS PRIVATE PROPERTY.
Hunting, Fishing, Trapping or Trespassing for any purpose is Prohibited Under
Penalty of the Law." It was a common sign, not made expressly for the
club.
When the worker was
done, so was the fence done. He returned to whatever his other duties were at
the club. Perhaps he worked at the front desk making sure that everyone who
passed his way was a member.
"Before 'I built a
wall," Frost took up where he had left off a previous day, "I'd ask
to know what I was walling in or walling out, and to whom I was like to give
offense." The poet sounded angry, but the beach club did not listen.
I put the book down to
go for a short swim. On my walk to the water I wondered if there would be more
fences at the bulkhead if the beach club won the pending land court case.
"Something there
is," Frost grumbled as I dove into the sound, "that doesn't love a wall, that wants it
down.”
James
Tripp
Oak
Bluffs
The Editor of the Martha’s Vineyard Times gave the
letter the headline: “Frost on Walls.” I forget what banner was used by the Martha’s Vineyard Gazette. One of my
roommates, who sold ads at my paper, asked me if I really had a Robert Frost
book with me. I said, “No.” That seemed to bother him. He shouldn’t have been bothered;
the letter was the result of the scars of a New England liberal arts education.
It was bound to come out that way. He had had a New England business school
education---different perspective. It probably would have bothered him to know
that I really wasn’t at the beach that first day. I was just jogging through.
That’s when I got some of my best ideas. One of my other roommates was a
typesetter for the Gazette. She
typeset my letter. She didn’t get it either. She thought I was weird. Those two
were actually having summer sex with each other---nothing serious. I’m not sure
if they got each other.
It turned out I was
right to put the letter in the Gazette. Someone
on the Planning Commission told me his father read the letter out loud at the
dinner table. The next time the Planning Commission met, they determined the
fence was built without a permit and they made the East Chop Beach Club take it
down.
I don’t know how the
lawsuit turned out. I didn’t stay on the island much longer. I did an internet
search and I couldn’t find anything about it. I don’t really care anyway.
That’s not the point of the story.
I remember that every time
one of the DJ’s at the radio station saw me he said, “Something there is that
doesn’t love a wall, that wants it down.”
Friday, August 20, 2010
From the Archives: 1996 "James Tripp for President" Campaign
This was a short campaign. It began the night before the election and was soon over. This is the first and last appearance before the vote:
If only the results of that election were different. America would be more American than it is today.
The concession speech:
If only the results of that election were different. America would be more American than it is today.
The concession speech:
Tuesday, July 20, 2010
The Day I Sold President George H.W. Bush Two Chocolate Crunch Bars
When I was in college, I sold two chocolate crunch bars to President George H. W. Bush when he was running in the Republican primary against Ronald Reagan. My class was having a candy sale to raise money and one of the young Republicans who lived in the dorm had arranged a field trip to a campaign event in his home state of New Hampshire. I figured here was a mark who couldn’t say no.
My young Republican friend was proud of the fact that he had been with Bush since the beginning. In fact, he had a pin that indicated that he was part of the three percent club. He had been with Bush since he was at three percent in the polls. This didn’t impress me. It just indicated that his father worked for the Company.
As Bush entered the hall I approached him. He was surrounded by six men in black. I said, “Mr. Bush, my class is having a candy sale to raise money. Would you like to buy a chocolate crunch bar?”
He said, “Get me on the way out, Kid.”
This was not a Frank Capra movie from the 1930s and yet he called me “Kid.” This did not bode well for his campaign.
I’m sure he made some speech that I wasn’t very interested in and then he made the mistake of leaving the way he came in and I was waiting for him. No doubt after this day a new security protocol was implemented to anticipate the need for at least one alternative exit, but on this day the old 1930s brush off just didn’t work. As Mr. Bush approached I called out to him again: “Hey Mr. Bush, remember me? I’m the Kid whose class is having a candy sale. Would you like to buy a chocolate crunch bar?”
And he said, “How much is the chocolate crunch bar?”
I said, “Fifty cents.”
And he said, “I’ll take two.”
Six Secret Service guys whipped out one dollar bills from I’m not sure where. There were six one dollar bills outstretched to me. I made a note to only sell to people with Secret Service details in the future.
I should have snatched the six dollars, but before I could, Bush said, “No, I’ll buy it.” The Secret Service put away their money. It disappeared just as mysteriously as it had appeared. I lost six other sales.
When Bush opened his wallet he had three one dollar bills. He gave me one. I gave him two chocolate crunch bars. He said, “That’s the first vote I ever had to buy.”
And the beauty is I never voted for him.
It’s like one of my other friends said to a guy from Harvard when we were at the bar who asked us, “Do you support Bush?”
My friend said, “We support whatever’s in the cooler.”
Buy The Hierophant:
My young Republican friend was proud of the fact that he had been with Bush since the beginning. In fact, he had a pin that indicated that he was part of the three percent club. He had been with Bush since he was at three percent in the polls. This didn’t impress me. It just indicated that his father worked for the Company.
As Bush entered the hall I approached him. He was surrounded by six men in black. I said, “Mr. Bush, my class is having a candy sale to raise money. Would you like to buy a chocolate crunch bar?”
He said, “Get me on the way out, Kid.”
This was not a Frank Capra movie from the 1930s and yet he called me “Kid.” This did not bode well for his campaign.
I’m sure he made some speech that I wasn’t very interested in and then he made the mistake of leaving the way he came in and I was waiting for him. No doubt after this day a new security protocol was implemented to anticipate the need for at least one alternative exit, but on this day the old 1930s brush off just didn’t work. As Mr. Bush approached I called out to him again: “Hey Mr. Bush, remember me? I’m the Kid whose class is having a candy sale. Would you like to buy a chocolate crunch bar?”
And he said, “How much is the chocolate crunch bar?”
I said, “Fifty cents.”
And he said, “I’ll take two.”
Six Secret Service guys whipped out one dollar bills from I’m not sure where. There were six one dollar bills outstretched to me. I made a note to only sell to people with Secret Service details in the future.
I should have snatched the six dollars, but before I could, Bush said, “No, I’ll buy it.” The Secret Service put away their money. It disappeared just as mysteriously as it had appeared. I lost six other sales.
When Bush opened his wallet he had three one dollar bills. He gave me one. I gave him two chocolate crunch bars. He said, “That’s the first vote I ever had to buy.”
And the beauty is I never voted for him.
It’s like one of my other friends said to a guy from Harvard when we were at the bar who asked us, “Do you support Bush?”
My friend said, “We support whatever’s in the cooler.”
Buy The Hierophant:
Monday, July 06, 2009
Robert S. McNamara: 1916-2009
When I was the News Director for WMVY FM on Martha’s Vineyard, I had occasion to interview Robert McNamara about a particular story.
I believe it was the summer of 1985, although I may be wrong. It could have been the summer of 1986. I am no longer a reporter and so I am no longer under any obligation to check the facts. It’s not really important to the story.
I do know that it was summer. I do know that Robert McNamara kept a boat docked in Vineyard Haven Harbor.
On this particular occasion my program director came to me and said, “Some people are saying that Robert McNamara’s boat is sticking out into the traffic lane.”
“Some people?” I said.
“Some people.” he said.
“What people?”
“Some people.”
I did not know who some people were, but clearly they were some people. They were saying that Robert McNamara’s boat was sticking out into the lane of traffic.
Martha’s Vineyard is an island. Although they had an airport, most people came onto the island on ferries that docked in Vineyard Haven. Some people were saying that Robert McNamara’s boat was making it difficult for the ferries to dock. It may still be that way today. Somebody else will have to check on that.
Then my program director told me I should call Robert McNamara and ask him about the charges. I inquired if he had McNamara’s number. He said, “No,” but some people he knew might have it.
Sure enough, some people did have his number and I gave him a ring. I don’t know what kind of boat he had, but it must have been a big one, the kind that some people will just never have, the kind that sticks out into lanes of traffic.
I don’t remember exactly how our conversation went, but it went something like this:
“Mr. McNamara, my name is James Tripp and I’m the News Director for WMVY. I’d like to ask you about where you dock your boat.”
“Oh, that again?” he said or something like it.
“Can I record this interview for broadcast?”
I don’t remember exactly what he said, but the general tone was, “You’re darn right you can!” Clearly, here was a man who wanted to get out his side of the story.
I said, “Some people are saying that your boat is sticking out into the lane of traffic, making it particularly hard for the ferries to dock.”
“Some people?” he said.
“Some people.” I said.
“What people?”
“Some people.”
“Well, that’s a lot of horse hockey,” he said, or something like that or not like that at all. He then went on to defend his boat slip. He outlined the history of his boat in that slip with a passion I’m sure he brought to his study of the history between China and Vietnam. By the time he was done he had me thinking, “Mmm…maybe some people are wrong.” Of course, maybe they were right. On any occasion, I had my sound bite. Thank-you, Mr. McNamara.
Perhaps I should have asked him if his boat was sticking out too far into the Gulf of Tonkin, but that was another story, not as important as this particular one.
To this day I’m not sure what kind of a boat he had. I was never invited onboard.
I believe it was the summer of 1985, although I may be wrong. It could have been the summer of 1986. I am no longer a reporter and so I am no longer under any obligation to check the facts. It’s not really important to the story.
I do know that it was summer. I do know that Robert McNamara kept a boat docked in Vineyard Haven Harbor.
On this particular occasion my program director came to me and said, “Some people are saying that Robert McNamara’s boat is sticking out into the traffic lane.”
“Some people?” I said.
“Some people.” he said.
“What people?”
“Some people.”
I did not know who some people were, but clearly they were some people. They were saying that Robert McNamara’s boat was sticking out into the lane of traffic.
Martha’s Vineyard is an island. Although they had an airport, most people came onto the island on ferries that docked in Vineyard Haven. Some people were saying that Robert McNamara’s boat was making it difficult for the ferries to dock. It may still be that way today. Somebody else will have to check on that.
Then my program director told me I should call Robert McNamara and ask him about the charges. I inquired if he had McNamara’s number. He said, “No,” but some people he knew might have it.
Sure enough, some people did have his number and I gave him a ring. I don’t know what kind of boat he had, but it must have been a big one, the kind that some people will just never have, the kind that sticks out into lanes of traffic.
I don’t remember exactly how our conversation went, but it went something like this:
“Mr. McNamara, my name is James Tripp and I’m the News Director for WMVY. I’d like to ask you about where you dock your boat.”
“Oh, that again?” he said or something like it.
“Can I record this interview for broadcast?”
I don’t remember exactly what he said, but the general tone was, “You’re darn right you can!” Clearly, here was a man who wanted to get out his side of the story.
I said, “Some people are saying that your boat is sticking out into the lane of traffic, making it particularly hard for the ferries to dock.”
“Some people?” he said.
“Some people.” I said.
“What people?”
“Some people.”
“Well, that’s a lot of horse hockey,” he said, or something like that or not like that at all. He then went on to defend his boat slip. He outlined the history of his boat in that slip with a passion I’m sure he brought to his study of the history between China and Vietnam. By the time he was done he had me thinking, “Mmm…maybe some people are wrong.” Of course, maybe they were right. On any occasion, I had my sound bite. Thank-you, Mr. McNamara.
Perhaps I should have asked him if his boat was sticking out too far into the Gulf of Tonkin, but that was another story, not as important as this particular one.
To this day I’m not sure what kind of a boat he had. I was never invited onboard.
Saturday, January 31, 2009
From the Archives: 1983 Stonehill College Commencement Speech - "The Unreasonable Man"
The last time I felt like this was the first day of my freshman year. My father parked his car in the circle in front of O'Hara Hall. My hand paused next to the door handle in that moment, unsure whether I should get out, and do all which that implied, or stay in the car and go home. It would have been easy to stay in that car, and I probably would have saved a dollar or two, but I opened the door on a venture that lasted four years.
Today I find myself gripped to that same door handle. And I am older now, and I cannot stay in the car. The time has come for me to quit my father's car.
It is natural for one so young to look forward, grasping the future with an innocent hand, but I would prefer to look backward, regarding the past as I would a saged learner, as a tool to see into my own nature, and the nature of all men and women.
I came to Stonehill a bit naive. I saw truth in all things, but someone was trying to hide it from me. There was a discrepancy between what I believed to be the natural state and the actual state. There were too many rules.
George Bernard Shaw once said that "The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man." I became unreasonable.
I became an "angry young man," disagreeing with almost any rule that might be arbitrarily imposed on me. Rules absorb truth. Truth is freedom. I was not free.
I spent a good deal of my freshman year banging my head against the wall, running off at the mouth, expecting answers without asking questions and receiving none. In my sophomore and junior years, practical action replaced talking. Previously, I had been involved in the shadows of student government. In my second and third years at Stonehill, I ran for student government president, losing both times.
In those same two years, I saw the way the game is played, and in my youth, I tried to change it. I was seeking freedom by altaring the rules.
My senior year has come and passed quickly. I haven't been very involved in Stonehill this year. I worked in the public affairs office writing nice things about the college. I lived with eleven fellow students in Manchester House. We talked.
In my senior year at Stonehill, I left the stage of action and went back to talking. I was wrong to think that what I wanted could be won by altaring the rules.
This year has been reflective. I appreciate the value of the academic experience. It tuned me like a fine engine. I affirm the importance of a balance between the professional and personal life. I fought for that in my sophomore year. I see the rules that I have fought so hard against as self-imposed. Every man and woman is as free as he or she chooses to be. Even at Stonehill, with all of its regulations, it is possible to be free. I am free. Stonehill is the foundation upon which to base an autonomous life. All of the structures of world order are here. We can see through them and be free.
Freedom does not lie in any parent’s rule. Freedom does not lie in any institutions rule. It does not exist under any government's rule. Freedom exists under one's own rule.
Freedom is not tangible. It does not exist in a schoolbook. It is not in any government document. It is not written in any bill of rights. Freedom is truth. It comes from within. It is not granted by any outside order.
There are free men and women in America. There are free men and women in the Soviet Union. Freedom exists in third world countries. Freedom exists wherever people are strong enough to see truth and say, "I am free."
Sovereignty is not gained by changing any earthly order. All orders are the same. All governments are the same. Some may seem to give freedom, and others may seem to limit freedom, but liberty cannot be granted by any government. Governments issue their own truths and thus limit freedom. Freedom comes to those who see it. Men on death row, behind prison walls, can be free.
As we grow older, we become caricatures of ourselves. We develop a philosophy and risk drowning in it, becoming increasingly narrow-minded. Let us hope that the young model upon which we base our life is free, for if it is not, we become prisoners in a deliberate world of imposed order which we allow to rule our sacred lives. We live in a time when we must be increasingly willing to take control. Our leadership has driven us to an age of destruction. We can die at the touch of a button.
Today I am leaving this campus. I may never return, although I probably will. I cannot leave what we lived here. I may never see things as clearly as when I saw things here. I will walk away, I will abandon my father's car, thanking him for driving me this far, and I will never forget what I saw here.
I leave Stonehill with a keener understanding of truth. I lost my innocence, and I regained it here. I still see the way I always do and now I know the rules.
Buy The Hierophant:
Today I find myself gripped to that same door handle. And I am older now, and I cannot stay in the car. The time has come for me to quit my father's car.
It is natural for one so young to look forward, grasping the future with an innocent hand, but I would prefer to look backward, regarding the past as I would a saged learner, as a tool to see into my own nature, and the nature of all men and women.
I came to Stonehill a bit naive. I saw truth in all things, but someone was trying to hide it from me. There was a discrepancy between what I believed to be the natural state and the actual state. There were too many rules.
George Bernard Shaw once said that "The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man." I became unreasonable.
I became an "angry young man," disagreeing with almost any rule that might be arbitrarily imposed on me. Rules absorb truth. Truth is freedom. I was not free.
I spent a good deal of my freshman year banging my head against the wall, running off at the mouth, expecting answers without asking questions and receiving none. In my sophomore and junior years, practical action replaced talking. Previously, I had been involved in the shadows of student government. In my second and third years at Stonehill, I ran for student government president, losing both times.
In those same two years, I saw the way the game is played, and in my youth, I tried to change it. I was seeking freedom by altaring the rules.
My senior year has come and passed quickly. I haven't been very involved in Stonehill this year. I worked in the public affairs office writing nice things about the college. I lived with eleven fellow students in Manchester House. We talked.
In my senior year at Stonehill, I left the stage of action and went back to talking. I was wrong to think that what I wanted could be won by altaring the rules.
This year has been reflective. I appreciate the value of the academic experience. It tuned me like a fine engine. I affirm the importance of a balance between the professional and personal life. I fought for that in my sophomore year. I see the rules that I have fought so hard against as self-imposed. Every man and woman is as free as he or she chooses to be. Even at Stonehill, with all of its regulations, it is possible to be free. I am free. Stonehill is the foundation upon which to base an autonomous life. All of the structures of world order are here. We can see through them and be free.
Freedom does not lie in any parent’s rule. Freedom does not lie in any institutions rule. It does not exist under any government's rule. Freedom exists under one's own rule.
Freedom is not tangible. It does not exist in a schoolbook. It is not in any government document. It is not written in any bill of rights. Freedom is truth. It comes from within. It is not granted by any outside order.
There are free men and women in America. There are free men and women in the Soviet Union. Freedom exists in third world countries. Freedom exists wherever people are strong enough to see truth and say, "I am free."
Sovereignty is not gained by changing any earthly order. All orders are the same. All governments are the same. Some may seem to give freedom, and others may seem to limit freedom, but liberty cannot be granted by any government. Governments issue their own truths and thus limit freedom. Freedom comes to those who see it. Men on death row, behind prison walls, can be free.
As we grow older, we become caricatures of ourselves. We develop a philosophy and risk drowning in it, becoming increasingly narrow-minded. Let us hope that the young model upon which we base our life is free, for if it is not, we become prisoners in a deliberate world of imposed order which we allow to rule our sacred lives. We live in a time when we must be increasingly willing to take control. Our leadership has driven us to an age of destruction. We can die at the touch of a button.
Today I am leaving this campus. I may never return, although I probably will. I cannot leave what we lived here. I may never see things as clearly as when I saw things here. I will walk away, I will abandon my father's car, thanking him for driving me this far, and I will never forget what I saw here.
I leave Stonehill with a keener understanding of truth. I lost my innocence, and I regained it here. I still see the way I always do and now I know the rules.
Buy The Hierophant:
Tuesday, December 30, 2008
From the Archives: 1984 Interview with Senator Gary Hart
In the summer of 1984, I was a reporter for The Martha’s Vineyard Times and I interviewed Colorado Senator Gary Hart, who had almost beat Vice President Walter Mondale for the Democratic nomination for President, and his wife, Lee. Here it is for posterity:
Q: Are you glad it’s over?
Sen. Hart: No, I wish I were the nominee, but I’ll campaign for the party nominee.
Q: Do you think you could have beat Reagan?
Sen. Hart: Sure.
Q: Would you have had a better chance than Mondale?
Sen. Hart: I don’t want to make that comparison. I’ll do everything I can to help the ticket. I hope Mondale wins, and I think he can.
Q: Do you think it’s hard to run for public office today? Everything is so scrutinized.
Sen. Hart: I think that the press has to cover politics differently.
Q: Do you think that you’re being fair?
Sen. Hart: I don’t want to get into that. I’m not in the business of judging the press, but I would just say, particularly for those who announce for the presidency…the personal kind of scrutiny that’s going to occur, ought to be done well ahead of time. The press does not need to wait. Sure, after you’ve won the New Hampshire primary, it does descend on you.
Q: With Geraldine Ferraro for example?
Sen. Hart: Her case is different.
Q: Nobody had time. Not even Mondale had time to scrutinize her background. Do you think what is happening to her husband is fair? Do you think he should be put through that? After all, he’s not the one running.
Sen. Hart: The family gets elected whether we like it or not. Lee is in the real estate business. If she had any shady or questionable dealings, I would have been pursued, and I think probably rightly so. I think it’s a question of not whether, but how.
Q: John Zaccaro has been vindicated for the most part, but they’re still making an issue out of it.
Sen. Hart: “They” are your profession. I’m not going to be in the business of judging journalism. Journalism has to be self-regulating. Politicians can’t decide what to write in journalism. You all have to decide yourselves whether you’re doing your job or not, and when the boundary line is crossed.
Lee Hart: I think it’s more of a partnership today. I think, frankly, when you seek the public trust, you owe every possible scrutiny that’s within legitimate bounds for the public to be able to place their trust in you. Unfortunately, those who are in public office or running for public office today are having to bear the burden because of abuses in the past.
When Gary first ran for United States Senate in 1974, there was no financial disclosure law. We disclosed every possible thing, including our income tax return and we’ve done that every year since.
Q: Do you file a joint tax return?
Lee Hart: Oh, yes.
Sen. Hart: It doesn’t matter. For 11 years now we’ve released our tax returns. When I ran in ’74, I said I thought it would take this country twenty years to get over Watergate. I think that’s exactly what’s going on.
Q: The public doesn’t want to be tricked again?
Lee Hart: I don’t know that the public has been fooled on this particular issue.
Sen. Hart: The public’s been told more than it wants to know.
Lee Hart: I do think the voters want to have confidence and place trust in people who are seeking office, particularly the two highest offices in the land. Therefore, I think that’s a part of it. The new problem that’s been coming about, and particularly with Ferraro, is that with more and more women running and holding public office, the spouse may well be the main breadwinner. It’s one of the things one has to take into consideration when they’re running for public office. We are partners whether we like it or not, in a far greater sense than a husband and wife ever were before.
Lee and Senator Gary Hart on Martha's Vineyard in 1984.
Q: What do you think are Mondale’s chances?
Sen. Hart: I’ve talked to him and he understands it’s an uphill fight. The polls show him to be a few points behind, but that can change very rapidly.
Q: What would four more years of Reagan-Bush mean?
Sen. Hart: An increasing escalation of the nuclear arms race, most frighteningly, a further decline in government commitment to a clean environment, a further deterioration of social programs necessary for children and the elderly, education and health programs, a complete abandonment by the administration of a meaningful social safety net and increased hostilities in foreign policy.
Q: Are we the “good guys” anymore in our foreign policy?
Sen. Hart: It’s mixed. In the third world, the more we conduct overt-covert wars in Nicaragua, the more we align ourselves with regimes like the Marcos regime and the former Somoza regime, the less we are.
Q: Should we have a “hands off” policy in Central America?
Sen. Hart: No, I think we have an interest there, both a national security interest and a spherical interest, but also an economic interest. We can promote democracy; we just don’t need to do it with the barrel of a gun.
Q: Let’s go through some of the Central American countries. What should we be doing in Guatemala?
Sen. Hart: I’m not going to give you a country by country synopsis. In the region, we ought to be cooperating more generally with other democratic allies---Mexico, Venezuela, Colombia, Panama---and there ought to be regional development banks, American manufacturing capability being exported and generally attempting to raise the standard of living, nutrition and so on.
Q: Should we be accepting the recommendations of the Contadora group?
Sen. Hart: Yes, very much so.
Q: What about reports that the CIA backed Contras are killing civilians? What should we be doing about that?
Sen. Hart: We shouldn’t be doing it.
Q: We shouldn’t be backing them?
Sen. Hart: I, for two years, very visibly and vocally, opposed this government’s policy, including that policy, in Central America.
Q: Should we be backing anyone down there? Should we be backing El Salvador as we are?
Sen. Hart: Only if they agree to end the death squads. Only when the death squads are completely eliminated should we be providing military assistance. And the economic assistance ought to be more carefully targeted.
Q: How much control do we have over our money once we give it to them?
Sen. Hart: Under this administration, very little, but it could be different.
Q: Do you think Walter Mondale having accepted PAC money is still an issue?
Sen. Hart: I’m not going to re-run this issue.
Q: What about ’88? Are you going to be there?
Sen. Hart: I hope Mondale is running for re-election.
Q: You’ll support Walter Mondale?
Sen. Hart: If he’s the President of the United States, I’ll be working to see that he gets a second term.
Q: And if he’s not?
Sen. Hart: That’s a long way off.
Q: Do you foresee yourself running again?
Sen. Hart: We have a national election on our hands right now and I think we’ve got to win that one.
[Note---Senator Hart was a front runner for the Democratic Presidential nomination in 1988 and withdrew after it was reported he was involved in an extramarital affair.]
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Q: Are you glad it’s over?
Sen. Hart: No, I wish I were the nominee, but I’ll campaign for the party nominee.
Q: Do you think you could have beat Reagan?
Sen. Hart: Sure.
Q: Would you have had a better chance than Mondale?
Sen. Hart: I don’t want to make that comparison. I’ll do everything I can to help the ticket. I hope Mondale wins, and I think he can.
Q: Do you think it’s hard to run for public office today? Everything is so scrutinized.
Sen. Hart: I think that the press has to cover politics differently.
Q: Do you think that you’re being fair?
Sen. Hart: I don’t want to get into that. I’m not in the business of judging the press, but I would just say, particularly for those who announce for the presidency…the personal kind of scrutiny that’s going to occur, ought to be done well ahead of time. The press does not need to wait. Sure, after you’ve won the New Hampshire primary, it does descend on you.
Q: With Geraldine Ferraro for example?
Sen. Hart: Her case is different.
Q: Nobody had time. Not even Mondale had time to scrutinize her background. Do you think what is happening to her husband is fair? Do you think he should be put through that? After all, he’s not the one running.
Sen. Hart: The family gets elected whether we like it or not. Lee is in the real estate business. If she had any shady or questionable dealings, I would have been pursued, and I think probably rightly so. I think it’s a question of not whether, but how.
Q: John Zaccaro has been vindicated for the most part, but they’re still making an issue out of it.
Sen. Hart: “They” are your profession. I’m not going to be in the business of judging journalism. Journalism has to be self-regulating. Politicians can’t decide what to write in journalism. You all have to decide yourselves whether you’re doing your job or not, and when the boundary line is crossed.
Lee Hart: I think it’s more of a partnership today. I think, frankly, when you seek the public trust, you owe every possible scrutiny that’s within legitimate bounds for the public to be able to place their trust in you. Unfortunately, those who are in public office or running for public office today are having to bear the burden because of abuses in the past.
When Gary first ran for United States Senate in 1974, there was no financial disclosure law. We disclosed every possible thing, including our income tax return and we’ve done that every year since.
Q: Do you file a joint tax return?
Lee Hart: Oh, yes.
Sen. Hart: It doesn’t matter. For 11 years now we’ve released our tax returns. When I ran in ’74, I said I thought it would take this country twenty years to get over Watergate. I think that’s exactly what’s going on.
Q: The public doesn’t want to be tricked again?
Lee Hart: I don’t know that the public has been fooled on this particular issue.
Sen. Hart: The public’s been told more than it wants to know.
Lee Hart: I do think the voters want to have confidence and place trust in people who are seeking office, particularly the two highest offices in the land. Therefore, I think that’s a part of it. The new problem that’s been coming about, and particularly with Ferraro, is that with more and more women running and holding public office, the spouse may well be the main breadwinner. It’s one of the things one has to take into consideration when they’re running for public office. We are partners whether we like it or not, in a far greater sense than a husband and wife ever were before.
Lee and Senator Gary Hart on Martha's Vineyard in 1984.
Q: What do you think are Mondale’s chances?
Sen. Hart: I’ve talked to him and he understands it’s an uphill fight. The polls show him to be a few points behind, but that can change very rapidly.
Q: What would four more years of Reagan-Bush mean?
Sen. Hart: An increasing escalation of the nuclear arms race, most frighteningly, a further decline in government commitment to a clean environment, a further deterioration of social programs necessary for children and the elderly, education and health programs, a complete abandonment by the administration of a meaningful social safety net and increased hostilities in foreign policy.
Q: Are we the “good guys” anymore in our foreign policy?
Sen. Hart: It’s mixed. In the third world, the more we conduct overt-covert wars in Nicaragua, the more we align ourselves with regimes like the Marcos regime and the former Somoza regime, the less we are.
Q: Should we have a “hands off” policy in Central America?
Sen. Hart: No, I think we have an interest there, both a national security interest and a spherical interest, but also an economic interest. We can promote democracy; we just don’t need to do it with the barrel of a gun.
Q: Let’s go through some of the Central American countries. What should we be doing in Guatemala?
Sen. Hart: I’m not going to give you a country by country synopsis. In the region, we ought to be cooperating more generally with other democratic allies---Mexico, Venezuela, Colombia, Panama---and there ought to be regional development banks, American manufacturing capability being exported and generally attempting to raise the standard of living, nutrition and so on.
Q: Should we be accepting the recommendations of the Contadora group?
Sen. Hart: Yes, very much so.
Q: What about reports that the CIA backed Contras are killing civilians? What should we be doing about that?
Sen. Hart: We shouldn’t be doing it.
Q: We shouldn’t be backing them?
Sen. Hart: I, for two years, very visibly and vocally, opposed this government’s policy, including that policy, in Central America.
Q: Should we be backing anyone down there? Should we be backing El Salvador as we are?
Sen. Hart: Only if they agree to end the death squads. Only when the death squads are completely eliminated should we be providing military assistance. And the economic assistance ought to be more carefully targeted.
Q: How much control do we have over our money once we give it to them?
Sen. Hart: Under this administration, very little, but it could be different.
Q: Do you think Walter Mondale having accepted PAC money is still an issue?
Sen. Hart: I’m not going to re-run this issue.
Q: What about ’88? Are you going to be there?
Sen. Hart: I hope Mondale is running for re-election.
Q: You’ll support Walter Mondale?
Sen. Hart: If he’s the President of the United States, I’ll be working to see that he gets a second term.
Q: And if he’s not?
Sen. Hart: That’s a long way off.
Q: Do you foresee yourself running again?
Sen. Hart: We have a national election on our hands right now and I think we’ve got to win that one.
[Note---Senator Hart was a front runner for the Democratic Presidential nomination in 1988 and withdrew after it was reported he was involved in an extramarital affair.]
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